GingerAle

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 #4
avatar+2511 
+3

You’re right; I did misunderstand it. Moreover, I jumped to criticism to soon.  The reason I gave for his incorrect solution is wrong. His solution does imply a probability for a ball going into an already occupied cup. 

 

There is still a problem though.

 

In my initial analysis, I calculated the probabilities based on indistinguishable balls.

Carl Bryan’s solution method assumes distinguishable balls.  These are two different probabilities.

(Note that the cups are always distinguishable, else there is only one-way to distribute the balls for a success.)

 

Carl Bryan’s solution (where both the balls and cups are distinguishable) in binomial form is

 

\(\dfrac {C!}{(C-B)!} \div (C^B)\\ \dfrac {10!}{(7!)} \div (10^3) = \frac{18}{25} = 0.72 \)

 

 

 

My method is

The number of ways to select three (3) cups from a set of 10 (one for each ball) is 10C3 = 120

The number of ways to select two (2) cups from a set of 10 (one for two balls and one for a single ball) is 10C2 =45

The number of ways to select two (2) cups from a set of 10 (one for single a ball and one for two balls) is 10C2 =45

(Note the selection of two cups is counted twice because the cup with the single ball can be switched with the pair in the other cup)

The number of ways to select one (1) cup from a set of 10 (one for all three balls) is 10C1 = 10

Total number of distributions = 220

Number of successes = 120

 

120/220 = (6/11) ≈  0.5455

 

In pure binomial form it is:

\(\dfrac {C!}{(C-B)!(B!)} \div \dfrac {(C+B-1)!}{( C-1)!(B!)}\\ \dfrac {10!}{(7!)(3!)} \div \dfrac {12!}{(9!)(3!)} = \dfrac{6}{11}\)

 

 

 

 

Now the question: what is the correct way to interpret the balls? Should they be indistinguishable or distinguishable?  Is it mathematician’s choice?

 

I choose indistinguishable because Ping-pong balls are indistinguishable and there is nothing in the question to indicate they are distinguishable.

 

Carl Bryan’s solution method is for distinguishable balls, he may not have considered the indistinguishable.

 

What is the default? Or is there one?

 

Comments ................Alan, CPhill, Melody and/or anyone who is versed on these questions and their solutions.

 

 

GA

13 июн. 2018 г.
 #2
avatar+2511 
+3

This is the the wrong blòódy solution for this question! (MAYBE?)

You know, Mr. BB, I didn’t recognize you in this post until I realized you plagiarized the answer verbatim from Quora.  Like usual, you demonstrated your impeccable knack for plagiarizing WRONG answers.

 

Despite the credentials of the answerer, Carl Bryan,  B.S. Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon University (1972), his answer is wrong. He answered the question nine days ago, and it seems his skills have atrophied in the past 46 years.

 

The reason it’s wrong: This assumption:

 

Assuming you mean they go into three different cups (not two in one and the third in a second)

 

changes the parameters of the probability. This is the same as saying “The cup is covered after a ball occupies it, so no more balls can enter. This changes the natural probability of the question. It’s not the question asked!

 

The question clearly indicates that 0, 1, 2, or 3 balls can occupy one cup. This is a necessary consideration when determining the probability of that NOT happening.

 

I can post the correct solution to this Mr. BB, but perhaps you can plagiarize a correct solution, or you could actually post your own solution. (I’m sure that will happen!)indecision

 

Edit: Strike out snarky troll comment and wrong reason.  (see below)

GA

13 июн. 2018 г.
 #9
avatar+2511 
+5

Hi Melody,

My jest was directed to EP, for his final (appended) remark, in the post above yours.

 

Purgatory is commonly regarded as a cleansing by way of painful temporal punishment, which, like the eternal punishment of h**l, is associated with the idea of fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory#Pain_and_fire

 

Like any religious belief, individuals will adjust their viewpoints according to their own personality and perspective. So for many, such a place is an environment for prayer and meditation, while waiting for god to take them to heaven.

 

Personally, despite being raised as Catholic, I could never embrace any of the tenets of Catholicism (or any other religion).  My first public demonstration of my contrary nature was in the fourth grade, after a visiting Brother gave a lecture (well couched in Catholic dogma) on creationism vs. evolution.

 

The teacher called on the students to ask questions or offer comments. Very few volunteered, so the teacher called on students individually.  “Ginger, you usually have something to say.”  I stood, which we were required to do when addressing the teacher or class,  “You are too late,” I said. “I’ve already read Darwin’s book.  God may have created the heavens and Earth, but I know I’m a chimp, just a new and improved version.”

 

After my comment, I started scurrying around the classroom and jumping on the tables while making chimp noises. I would have swung from the rafters if there were any. About a third of the class—mostly boys joined in the spectacle.  I jumped on my best (boy) friend’s back; he could easily carry me around, and this continued for a few minutes, until the teacher scolded us back to our seats.    During the commotion, I heard the Brother say to our teacher, “Your class room has become purgatory.”  I remember thinking, “it may be purgatory for you, but it’s a little bit of heaven for us.”

 

Amazingly, we were not disciplined for this, although we did get a lecture on proper classroom behavior. After this, my classmates –usually boys– often brought me bananas. These banana gifts continued into high school. My chimp persona continues to this day.laugh 

 

Sister Alice, my mathematics teacher for 7th, 8th, and the first half of 9th grade, would often “condemn” her students (sometimes individually) to additional time in purgatory for poor math scores on tests. Her comments never came across as any kind of jest or levity.  I would often intentionally “solve” problems incorrectly using various absurd methods, just to listen to her howl.  My math grades were poor anyway, and by doing this, I rarely scored higher than D’s.  

 

After one particular midterm exam, Sister Alice returned my test, saying, “Ginger, you are not going to purgatory, you’re going straight to heII!”   To which I replied, “Oh, I’ll keep your company then, and you can teach me the correct way to solve these.”   

 

My class thought this was funny, but Sister Alice didn’t. I received an immediate detention—the parochial school’s version of purgatory. I spent the time drawing Sister Alice roasting in heII, with demons stabbing her with pitchforks, inscribed with errant mathematical equations. I titled it Saint Alice Skips Purgatory.

 

Sister Alice was also the art teacher for the secondary grades, and she never cared much for my art, despite the fact that at least one of my art works always received honorable mention in every regional completion I entered—including one titled Beyond Purgatory, based on the one I did in detention.  The Mother Superior (principal) confiscated the original—not because of the subject matter, but because detention was supposed to be a time of repentance and meditation.  When she confiscated my drawing, she was doing her best to suppress her laughter.   

 

The Mother Superior was usually “no nonsense” when it came to running the school, but she did have a sense of humor. Years later, after her funeral mass, someone told me she had my drawing framed, and she would hang it in her quarters for the week preceding All Saints' Day (Halloween).

To me this honor far exceeded all the gold/blue, silver/red, and bronze/white ribbons I’d won for any art completion.smiley

 

GA

9 июн. 2018 г.
 #3
avatar+2511 
+3

Mr. BB, you made a BooBoo. The question asks for an initial amount that will return $1500 in interest, not future value.  You used the future value formula and this gives the accrued amount (principal + interest) as part of the total. The $1500 includes the $851.14 principal, leaving only $648.86 for the interest portion. 

 

The original deposit has to be $1,967.62.  I’m sure you know the correct formula for this, so I’ll leave you to it.

 

I’m surprised; you don’t usually s***w up interest rate questions.  Perhaps because it’s a savings account, instead of a bond or an annuity, it threw you off your game.  I wasn’t the one who discovered your error—it was my dog, Mr. Peabody. The narrative of how it unfolded is below. 

 

Mr. BB, you might be interested to know I was playing Monopoly with my dog, Mr. Peabody, and cat, DC Copper. We all keep an eye on the forum while we play Monopoly; my cat always looks forward to any post you may make. As I said before, he likes you. I’m still not sure why other than for possible reasons mentioned in previous posts. 

 

Mr. Peabody recently renewed his bank examiners’ license, by attending seminars with former bankers of Smith & Blarney and Wells Fargo. There’s nothing like learning about fraud and embezzlement techniques from those who’ve practiced the theories in the real world.

 

Your post popped up during the game, and it gleaned interest from both DC and Mr. Peabody.  When Mr. Peabody saw your post he said, “He’s either back to crooked banking practices or he’s an idiot." I was very impressed he could discern this just from a glance.  Further evaluation would have to wait  though, it was DC’s turn to roll. 

 

For this game, Mr. Peabody was the banker and DC was nearly insolvent after landing on Boardwalk (with two hotels), and other properties, two times in five rounds of passing GO.  DC had mortgaged all his properties to pay the rent. He was in a bad mood about it, but it got worse when he landed on the Boardwalk again. He had enough cash to pay the rent, except doing so put him below the minimum threshold for solvency and Mr. Peabody called in his loan.  (We have our own rules based on early 20th century banking laws and practices).  DC had to pay off all his loans the next time he passed GO (or went to jail).  Even if Mr. Peabody and I landed on every one of his properties before then, he still couldn’t pay of his loans. 

 

Normally, they only fight after the game is over, but DC was pissed! The only time he was ever more pissed was when we played the game using the Communist: Soviet Union rules. In this game, Mr. Peabody effectively made himself dictator and jailed DC, and fined him every ruble he made, keeping the money for himself for 25 rounds. DC broke jail and started a revolt. Sh*t! If it isn't over thirty years since the end of the Soviet Union Proletariat and still it causes trouble!

What a mess. It took 12 hours to clean it up.  

 

Anyway, this time it wasn’t communism, just a pissed off, bankrupt cat.  It took 10 hours to clean up the mess and find the playing pieces.

 

The playing pieces are unique works of art. DC’s piece is a tiger carved from the fossilized tooth of a saber-toothed tiger. Mr. Peabody’s piece is a wolf carved from part of an elephant tusk. Mine is a chimp carved from a Javan rhinoceros horn, and shellacked.  All these pieces are very rare and irreplaceable. 

 

Anyway, Mr. BB, all of this needed tending to before I could comment on your post.

 

You know, Mr. BB, if you’d care to play, I’ll see if I can get a small sample of the Blarney Stone (Cloch na Blarnan) and have a symbolic banker sculpted in your image. We can play with real money, if you’d care to—we’d need to hire a disinterested banker though. I know my cat, DC Copper, would be thrilled. Maybe I could figure out why he likes you.indecision 

 

Anyway, let me know.

 

Oh, don’t forget to fix your screwed up solution, and you need to give a refund to the question asker, and file a report with the bank examiners’ review board. There are probably a few other things too, but his is a good start. 

 

 

GA

7 июн. 2018 г.